What Does it Mean to Defy and Why Does It Matter? An Interview with Sunita Sah
Issue 153: Why it's important to understand defiance as a skill, not a personality trait
What does it really mean to “defy,” and why does it matter? In a world where conformity is often rewarded and going along to get along is the norm, the very idea of defiance can feel disruptive or even dangerous. In her new book, Defy, Sunita Sah, an Associated Professor at the Cornell University College of Business, challenges our assumptions about disobedience, arguing that defiance can be a powerful force for alignment with our deepest values.
Drawing on personal experiences, real-world case studies, and psychological research, Dr. Sah’s book reveals how “defiance” can be a quiet, intentional act rather than a loud rebellion. By redefining defiance as integrity in action, she shows us how small choices—like speaking up in a meeting or refusing to endorse an ethically questionable practice—can reshape group dynamics for the better.
“This redefinition of defiance challenges long-held assumptions that defiance is disruptive or reserved for extraordinary individuals. Instead, I argue that defiance is a skill, not a personality trait—a practice anyone can develop and refine.” - Sunita Sah
We were excited to interview Sunita because her work on defiance aligns with our own research on dissent in groups, which finds that people are very often motivated to diverge from others not because they want to be difficult but because they see something wrong with the group and want to change it for the better. As Sunita says, it’s important to “shift your mindset about defiance. Appreciate that it’s not about being difficult or oppositional—it’s about living with integrity.” For people who care deeply about a group, that integrity may, on occasion, mean standing up and saying, “No.”
Read on to discover how harnessing the under-appreciated power of defiance just might change your life—and the world around you. You can buy a copy of her book here.
Thanks for the chance to talk, Sunita. What does your book teach us about social identity or group dynamics?
Defy explores the under-appreciated power of defiance—not as rebellion or chaos, but as a force for alignment with our core values, even when societal or group pressures push us to comply. Group dynamics often amplify the conflict between individual values and collective expectations, especially when authority figures or the majority consensus push against personal integrity.
The book unpacks how our innate need for belonging and connection can predispose us to comply. From early childhood, we’re taught that obedience is good, and disobedience is bad. This conditioning manifests in behaviors like staying silent when a colleague makes an offensive comment or going along with workplace norms that feel ethically questionable.
We often comply because we want to maintain harmony within our group or avoid signaling distrust toward a leader or peer. This psychological phenomenon, which I call “insinuation anxiety,” is a distinct type of anxiety that arises when people worry that their noncompliance with another person’s wishes or advice may be interpreted as a signal of distrust, insinuating that person is not who they appear to be or should be. None of us want to imply that our friends, family, coworkers, or bosses could be biased, unethical, or incompetent. This dynamic is particularly strong in hierarchical or high-stakes group settings, where the pressure to comply can be overwhelming.
Defy teaches us that defiance doesn’t have to be loud or confrontational—it can be quiet and intentional, grounded in aligning our actions with our values. It’s about saying “no” to misalignment and “yes” to integrity, which can ultimately reshape the group dynamics around us for the better.
What is the most important idea readers will learn from your book?
The key idea in Defy is that defiance isn’t inherently oppositional—it’s about alignment with your core values. To defy doesn’t mean to disrupt for the sake of disruption; it means acting in accordance with your own true values when external pressures push you in another direction.
This redefinition of defiance challenges long-held assumptions that defiance is disruptive or reserved for extraordinary individuals. Instead, I argue that defiance is a skill, not a personality trait—a practice anyone can develop and refine.
Understanding defiance as alignment shifts the focus from rebellion to thoughtful action. It allows us to recognize and resist forces—like groupthink and social pressure—that lead us to comply. When practiced, defiance can become a powerful tool for fostering justice, harmony, and meaningful social change.
Why did you write this book and how did writing it change you?
The idea for Defy stemmed from personal experience and professional research and insights. As a physician-turned-organizational psychologist, I’ve spent years studying how advice, authority, and influence shape our decisions. Time and again, I noticed how deeply people regret moments of silence or compliance when they should have spoken up or taken a stand. I wanted to understand the forces behind these decisions—and offer tools to help people navigate them differently.
As a child, I learned to equate obedience with being “good” and saw firsthand how authority could be misused. In school, I watched teachers cross ethical lines under the guise of discipline or order. Later, as a college student, I read Stanley Milgram’s experiments on obedience, where participants followed orders to administer what they believed were life-threatening shocks to another person. These experiences made me question whether compliance is always virtuous and defiance inherently problematic.
Writing Defy forced me to confront my own compliance tendencies. It also gave me a framework to understand the tension I—and so many others—feel in moments when defiance is necessary but daunting. Defy became the book I wished I’d had many years ago: a handbook for defiance, a step-by-step strategy for learning how to defy when it matters most.
Ultimately, the process deepened my belief in the power of small, deliberate acts of defiance. They may seem insignificant in the moment, but collectively, they shape the culture of our workplaces, communities, and societies.
What will readers find provocative or controversial about your book?
Readers might find the redefinition of defiance itself provocative. We’re conditioned to think of defiance as disruptive, rebellious, or even dangerous. But Defy argues that true defiance is none of those things—it’s a force for clarity and alignment.
Another potentially controversial idea is the critique of compliance, which many people equate with being agreeable or cooperative. The book challenges readers to reconsider whether “being a team player” or “being a good employee” always serves the greater good or whether it sometimes perpetuates harm.
Finally, the concept of “false defiance” might spark debate. This occurs when people believe they’re acting independently, but their behavior is actually a form of conformity. Voting along party lines because of familial or community tradition, for instance, may feel like an act of individuality but often reflects deep-rooted social pressures. Defy invites readers to interrogate these choices and consider whether they are truly values-based or just another form of conditioned compliance.
Do you have any practical advice for people who want to apply these ideas (e.g., three tips for the real world)?
1. Tap Into Your Tension
Pay attention to the discomfort you feel in situations where compliance doesn’t sit well with you. This tension is often your internal compass signaling a misalignment between your values and your actions. Instead of ignoring it, treat it as a cue to pause and reflect.
2. Pause and Reflect
Pausing creates space for intentional decision-making, helping you act in alignment with your principles rather than succumbing to social pressure. When faced with pressure to comply, take a moment before reacting and ask yourself:
Does this align with my values?
What are the risks of saying yes?
What might I gain by saying no?
3. Reframe Defiance as Alignment
Shift your mindset about defiance. Appreciate that it’s not about being difficult or oppositional—it’s about living with integrity. Start small: say no to a request that feels misaligned with your priorities, or speak up when you witness something that conflicts with your values. Each act of values-based defiance strengthens your ability to make courageous decisions when it matters most.
By practicing these three steps, you can develop the skill of defiance—not as an act of rebellion, but as a deliberate, values-driven way to navigate the complexities of group dynamics and social influence.
Catch up on the last one…
Last week, we unveiled the secret to team success, while celebrating the Ohio State Buckeyes as a prime example.