The keys to DEEP LISTENING by Emily Kasriel
Issue 170: Why we need to listen to understand, not respond
What if the key to bridging divides is not better reasoning skills or persuasion, but better listening? In her new book, Deep Listening, media executive and researcher Emily Kasriel challenges the common belief that listeners in conversations are merely neutral recipients of information. Instead, she argues that real understanding begins with how we listen actively.
Drawing from her experiences as a BBC journalist and leadership coach, Emily offers an eight-step approach to shape productive conversations with people we disagree with. She has wrestled with her own habits to interrupt in conversations and realized how she used to assume that what she had to say was more important than what the speaker is about to discover or articulate. In this interview, she previews her book and offers actionable tips for cultivating better dialogue in our everyday lives.
We first met Emily when she edited our column for BBC on “Why 'cartooning' political opponents is bad for us”. The column was popular—read by over 500,000 people—thanks in large part to Emily’s editing and insights. It’s exciting that she has now written her own book on the topic.
“Many fear that opening themselves to another’s worldview signals agreement or approval, but Deep Listening is about understanding, not endorsement.”
Emily Kasriel
You can learn more about Deep Listening here and order the book here.
What does your book teach us about social identity or group dynamics?
Deep Listening reveals that our fears of engaging with “outsider” groups are often rooted in unconscious projections and ingrained social scripts. We tend to approach those we see as different-whether by politics, class, religion, or culture-with suspicion or defensiveness, sometimes without even realizing it. My book illustrates, through stories like that of Ana Luiza and her stepfather in São Paulo - who lie on opposite sides of the contest political divide in Brazil, how these divides can be bridged not by trying to win arguments, but by first listening to ourselves and acknowledging the shadows or biases we project onto others.
When we take the time to reflect on our own assumptions and emotions, we become more capable of truly hearing others. This process is not about erasing differences or pretending to agree; rather, it’s about creating the psychological safety necessary for authentic exchange. In practice, Deep Listening enables people to move from seeing the world in binary terms-us versus them-to recognizing the legitimacy of multiple perspectives. This shift doesn’t necessarily resolve all disagreements, but it transforms the quality of the interaction, making it possible to coexist and even collaborate across divides.
What is the most important idea readers will learn from your book?
The central idea is that listening deeply to people you disagree with does not contaminate you or require you to compromise your own values. Many fear that opening themselves to another’s worldview signals agreement or approval, but Deep Listening is about understanding, not endorsement. The book details how, when we listen with curiosity and empathy, we do not risk losing our identity; instead, we gain insight into the human experience and foster dignity on both sides. As I show through research and personal stories, like when I witnessed President Mandela listen to disgruntled soldiers, diffusing what could have been a very troubling incident, Deep Listening allows us to see the person behind the position, which is essential for reducing polarization and building trust-even when agreement is impossible.
Why did you write this book and how did writing it change you?
My motivation grew out of leading the BBC Crossing Divides project, where I saw firsthand the power and difficulty of bringing people together across lines of race, class, religion, and politics. I wanted to move beyond superficial stories of unity to understand what really enables people to have meaningful engagements across divides. This led me to research and develop an eight-step approach to Deep Listening, focusing on genuine, authentic encounters rather than performative gestures.
Writing the book was transformative. I interviewed and learned from a wide range of creative thinkers-from Nobel laureate Wole Soyinka to artists like Antony Gormley, First Nation Canadians, and Japanese Tea Ceremony practitioners. Each encounter illuminated new dimensions of listening, challenging my own assumptions and expanding my understanding of what it means to truly hear another person. The process deepened my appreciation for the complexity of listening and inspired me to practice these principles in my own life and work.
What will readers find provocative or controversial about your book?
The provocative claim at the heart of Deep Listening is that listening is not a passive act. The book challenges the common belief that the listener is merely a neutral recipient of information. Instead, I argue, based upon extensive findings, that the listener is a co-creator of the speaker’s narrative, shaping the conversation through every response, question, and even through silence. This idea can be unsettling because it places responsibility on the listener to be present and engaged, rather than detached. It also upends traditional power dynamics, suggesting that the act of listening can be as influential as speaking, and that both parties are changed by the encounter.
Do you have any practical advice for people who want to apply these ideas (e.g., three tips for the real world)?
Be curious. Approach every conversation as an opportunity to learn something new, even (or especially) when you disagree. Curiosity helps you move beyond assumptions and opens the door to empathy and genuine understanding.
Become aware of your judgments. Notice when you are making judgments about the other person-whether about their ideas, character, or motives. Rather than trying to suppress these judgments, acknowledge them and set them aside temporarily so you can listen more openly.
Listen to understand, not to respond. Resist the urge to interrupt or formulate your rebuttal while the other person is speaking. Instead, focus on what they are actually saying-and what they might not be saying. Silence can be powerful; a warm, empathetic pause can encourage the speaker to go deeper and reflect more honestly.
I used to be a serial interrupter. What helped me interrupt less was discovering the power of silence-allowing the speaker space to think and express themselves fully. I realized that when I interrupt, I am assuming that what I have to say is more important than what the speaker is about to discover or articulate. By holding back and offering attentive silence, I enable others to explore new possibilities in their own thinking. But, as my family will attest, I am still a work in progress..
News and Updates
Jay had a recent paper, “A Consensus Statement on Potential Negative Impacts of Smartphone and Social Media Use on Adolescent Mental Health” that was covered in Cal Newport’s popular podcast. Here is a summary from his website:
To better understand how experts truly think about these issues, the study’s lead authors, Jay Van Bavel and Valerio Capraro, convened a group of 120 researchers from 11 disciplines and had them evaluate a total of 26 claims about children and phones. As Van Bavel explained in a recent appearance on Derek Thompson’s podcast, their goal was to move past the ‘non-representative shouting about these topics that happens online to try instead to arrive at some consensus views.’
The panel of experts was able to identify a series of statements that essentially all of them (more than 90%) agreed were more or less true. These included:
Adolescent mental health has declined in several Western countries over the past 20 years (note: contrarians had been claiming that this trend was illusory and based on reporting effects).
Smartphone and social media use correlate with attention problems and behavioral addiction.
Among girls, social media use may be associated with body dissatisfaction, perfectionism, exposure to mental disorders, and risk of sexual harassment.
This coverage led to 300 downloads overnight of our new paper. We invite everyone else to check it our and read it for yourself.
Catch up on the last one…
Substance use is common at music festivals, perhaps for many reasons. Read on to learn about how psychedelic drugs may play a part in transformative experiences and greater social connectedness.
As important is LOOKING at the body before you. Size influences everyone's attitude because gluttony is an accepted shame. Whatever you hear is filtered through the body.